DIviders, not Uniters

[basildestiny]

You all may recall last year about this time, I was gearing up for the 2004 election. I signed up on the John Kerry website and worked really hard to promote the man that I felt was best suited for the job. I have since changed my mind and gone from a staunch Democrat to not being one. It was brought to my attention that I wasn't voting with my morals and ethics. And when I looked at my reasons for wanting to be a Democrat, it wasn't because I felt that side was right. It was because I didn't like what the other side was doing. I had taken a "them vs us" attitude and was determined to bring about some change. So I re-evaluated what was important to me. When I did that, I realized that I sided with the President. I didn't think he was a saint, but I felt he was closer to what I believed than John Kerry. At the very least, he did what he said. I could count on him to say something and do it.

That being said, I got an email this morning from John Kerry. I'm still signed up through his website. I've heard that someone even called from his campaign thanking me for my support. I wasn't at home to receive this phone call. But back to my point, the email today was entitled "Dividers, not Uniters" and spoke about how this White House was dividing the nation. Today's division was being lead by Karl Rove who classified conservatives and liberals as such: Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. This statement does not seem unfair or untrue to me today. I can understand what Karl Rove meant and true, he didn't use maybe the best phrasing. In honesty, as John Kerry says, we all united together after the attacks and were all Americans. However, 4 years later, this is what we have, exactly what Karl Rove said. And he said it nicely. He could have used harsher language to describe liberals if his goal was to divide the nation. Perhaps it was his goal, but John Kerry didn't quote the entire speech. Just quoted that part in particular to illustrate his point and I do not believe his point is illustrated.

But John Kerry takes it a step further. And says that our reaction to this should be a letter to the President requesting (if you really think that John Kerry would be satisfied with a no because it was only a request) that the President renounce Rove's claims. Then he took a step further by giving a speech in front of the Senate calling for Karl Rove's resignation. But that wasn't really what he said. He actually called for President Bush to fire Rove. Let me just ask the question that is the big pink elephant in the room for me. How is firing Rove going to unite the country? How is demanding the President renounce Rove's claims going to unite the country? Does John Kerry have any plans or ideas in mind that would unite the country?

The reasonable thing to do would be to say that Karl Rove may have used incorrect phrasing. Of course, he didn't mean ALL liberals and ALL conservatives see things this way. And it certainly wasn't anyone's initial reaction. But if you really don't think the nation is not divided something even vaguely along those lines, I challenge you to turn on the news or pick up a paper or go to a news website and see if you still feel that way.

The President certainly isn't a saint, but does he divide anymore than John Kerry?
~Bas

PS Was that any less of a collosal waste of time than Congressman Kurt Weldon's speech in front of Congress two days ago? Here is an excerpt. He was upset that he was banned from the Factor for life because he didn't call and let anyone know he wasn't going to make it and in fact the Factor had received an email saying he was 15 minutes away. It turns out that his staff had made a mistake. But instead leaving it at that, the people paid for this to be put on the Record.

Talk about spin, Mr. Speaker. So today, I sent a memo to Mr. O'Reilly explaining the facts. Now I would remind Mr. O'Reilly that the Secretary of Energy, an important meeting on nuclear issues in the former Soviet states, takes my top priority.

So Mr. Speaker, for the record, because I had some contacts from constituents or other members, I would put the summary of my statement to Mr. O'Reilly and the notes of my staff about their contact with Mr. O'Reilly's show in to the Congressional Record.

Such an over reaction.

Comments

[jkb.livejournal.com]

What possible evidence is there that Democrats didn't want to go after Al Qaeda in Afghanistan? In fact, one of Kerry's biggest criticisms of Bush has been that Bush let Osama Bin Laden get away and diverted our attention to a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, Iraq. Now Karl Rove is claiming that Bush's political opponents advocated a soft response to Bin Laden after 9/11, and he doesn't have a shred of evidence. He's just bashing Democrats. How can that be acceptable?

I am curious about one thing

[jkb.livejournal.com]

A lot of Bush supporters say they can count on President Bush to mean what he says and do what he says. I keep wondering why. Very seriously: why? This is someone who hasn't provided the funding necessary for No Child Left Behind, someone who said we were invading Iraq because they were involved with 9/11, until it was Weapons of Mass Destruction, until it was "terrorist ties," until it was "bringing democracy to Iraq."

During the campaign, when Kerry said Bush intended to privatize Social Security, Bush said that was a lie. Suddenly Bush's #1 priority is to privatize Social Security.

There's a huge list of examples of Bush changing positions and rationales. Kerry very rarely changes position on anything. But I'm sincerely curious as to why Bush supporters believe that he's 'steadfast' when there's so much evidence to the contrary.

[basildestiny]

I have no idea what Rove said. I'm sure that I'll take the time after work to read it. But to be fair, I didn't read Kerry's speech either. My point was that Kerry took one statement of Rove's to defend his position and that statement didn't really back what he was saying. It made him look like a divider just like he was calling his opponents.

Since I haven't read the speech, I can't say it is acceptable. I don't even know much about Karl Rove to say yes or no on the guy. I did watch That's My Bush the tv show, but that wouldn't be fair. Just bashing Democrats isn't nice just like bashing Republicans isn't nice.

[jkb.livejournal.com]

Well, the reason Kerry took one statement of Rove's is that that's the statement that was incredibly insulting. It's as if someone said, "All Lithuanians are mentally retarded midgets" -- I don't think many people would complain if speeches about why that statement was insulting focused in on that one statement.

Kerry wasn't trying to "defend" any sort of position. He was stating that Rove's lying, outrageous attack on the patriotism of Democrats was unacceptable. Kerry has nothing to defend there.

Re: I am curious about one thing

[basildestiny]

I don't think Bush is steadfast like a rock. He's certainly not someone I would depend on to save my life. But neither is Kerry. No one in politics would actually be someone I would consider steadfast. The important things to me aren't Social Security or No Child Left Behind. While these may be important issues, they aren't what will decide my vote. My vote is decided, as sadly as I thought this rationale was last year, on the key issues to me of Gay Marriage and Abortion. The other issues, I have done no research on because I do not like politics so I do not stay on top of those things. It's so funny to me to see how I have turned around. It boggles the mind sometimes. But I have to side with my morals and have faith in God who is bigger than me.

[basildestiny]

Ok. So he isn't defending a position by quoting Rove. But then he takes a position that Rove should be fired.

What Kerry quoted Rove as saying wasn't that "All Lithuanians are mentally retarded midgets." He quoted him as saying "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers." I've already said that Rove was mistaken if he meant immediately afterward, but that the country is divided like this currently. And having been on the liberal side and having felt EXACTLY the way that Rove said liberals felt, I am having trouble seeing his statement as insulting. I felt that way. I felt we had no right to be in a war with Iraq. I didn't want to prepare for war. That wasn't an insult to my patriotism. It's just an over reaction to something said.

But I can understand why Kerry might be on guard with Dick what's his name shouting that Gitmo treats people like the Nazis and then he gets attacked for saying that. I see a huge difference though between Dick's statement and Rove's statements. And I don't see Rove's statement as trying to be a blanket statement. Again, I base all of this on the information that Kerry gave me to inform me on the situation so I have no idea what was actually spoken in the speech. So when I get a chance, I'll look.

Re: I am curious about one thing

[hobbit-ninja.livejournal.com]

My vote is decided, as sadly as I thought this rationale was last year, on the key issues to me of Gay Marriage and Abortion.

What is your position on those issues exactly?

Re: I am curious about one thing

[basildestiny]

I'll give my position, but I will give a caveat before my position. Everyone deserves to be loved. I don't hate anyone. I don't have the right to hate anyone. I get frustrated and appalled by actions, but I have no right to hate anyone and that is simply from a moral stance. I am no better than anyone else.

Being said abortion is not a woman's right. It isn't her body that is destroyed, it's the baby's body. I always felt that way as a democrat. I felt it shouldn't be used as an alternative to birth control or abstinence. Abstinence being the best choice. But I will go as far as saying now that children are a gift that should not be thrown away no matter the circumstances. It's not that I would want to have a child after being raped or that I want to die in childbirth, but rather that even these circumstances do not make murder ok. As a side, I think this society finds it more appalling to think that kittens or puppies might be aborted than a human baby. There's something backward about that.

Gay marriage should not be legal. And there is a difference between being gay and being transgendered or being dual gendered.

[jkb.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'm a liberal, and I never wanted to offer therapy to Osama Bin Laden or those guys. Neither did any of the Democratic leadership. But it sounds like you're mixing together two different things: our response to terrorism and the war in Iraq.

As far as I know, all the Democratic leadership was and is united in the belief that we need to hunt down Osama Bin Laden and other Al Qaeda terrorists. The war in Iraq, on the other hand, had absolutely nothing to do with Al Qaeda, and the evidence coming out of England lately indicates that Bush knew that Saddam didn't have WMDs, so yes, many Democrats are questioning why we're there. It sounds like you think that attacking Iraq had something to do with responding to 9/11, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Anyway, that's why it's insulting. The Democrats are insisting that we hunt down *Al Qaeda*, and to claim that that's somehow soft on terror -- and that attacking the wrong country is being strong on defense -- is insulting.

Re: I am curious about one thing

[jkb.livejournal.com]

Kerry and Bush have the same position on gay marriage -- they're both against gay marriage and for civil unions -- so presumably that narrowed your decision down to just one factor, abortion.

It's a documented fact that there have been more abortions under Bush than under Clinton (probably because of cutbacks in access to contraception). But I can see why abortion opponents would hope that Bush's Supreme Court appointees would make abortion illegal. It's hard for me to imagine choosing that way, because Bush's other policies are so horrific. But I guess I can see why, if that's your priority, you would pin your hopes on Bush making Supreme Court appointments that will make abortion illegal and thus harder (though not impossible) to obtain.

If you're curious

[jkb.livejournal.com]

about why this is such a brouhaha, one conservative blogger, Juan Cole, explains some of it at http://www.balloon-juice.com/ He asks, "So which is worse? Asserting that over 1/3 of the country wants to coddle terrorists, or making the assertion for purely political reasons?" He cites a lot of other bloggers, many of them conservative, explaining why what Rove said is obnoxious, and why it seems to be part of a strategy: as more and more information comes out indicating that the Bush Administration duped us into war in Iraq and that we're losing the war there due to bad planning on the part of the Administration, they will try to blame liberals for being "soft on terrorism." It's a deliberate strategy of demonizing opponents in order to pin blame on them instead of taking responsibility themselves. That's a lot of what is so obnoxious. Why doesn't Bush focus on finding Osama Bin Laden, as Kerry has been demanding for over a year? Why not prepare properly for war, as Kerry and other Democrats urged, and why not leave the weapons inspectors in Iraq to do their job instead of ordering them out and launching the invasion? Bush needs to take responsibility for his own choices instead of using Rove to set up the Democrats as the fall guys for his mistakes.

Re: I am curious about one thing

[basildestiny]

Again I never said Bush was saint. I think I said twice that I don't think he's a saint and that I don't even think he's reliable. But then I don't think any politician is. Nor do I enjoy politics. I will not get into a political discussion on these subjects because I am not informed. It's not a matter of I shirk my civic duty. I keep up as best I can, but I have not researched them enough to want to discuss them. Or rather, I should say that all of my researched opinions were based on the Democrat viewpoint.

I'll say that when I supported Kerry, I was certain that he wanted gay marriage but backed down on the issue because he knew he wouldn't get the majority vote if he said he believed in it. I thought it was a little weak of him to do that, but I wanted to see him win so I didn't argue. I just felt he should have jumped off the cliff for his cause. Of course I feel differently now.

I never had the impression that Bush wanted to approve gay marriage. I did have an idea that Cheney might have been a little bit soft on that one issue. Which was always hard for me to swallow as a Democrat--Cheney being soft. Yeah right!

I HATE greatly dislike THE SUPREME COURT!!! This country is lead by those 9 Justices. I guess that does go back on what I said initially about hating people so I just greatly dislike them. I don't think that Bush is my hope at all. He's very obdurate or that was my impression and I think Kerry's impression of the man in the debates. He simply doesn't change his mind. Right or wrong, he's not going anywhere. Is he a great speaker? Nope. Do I wish he would explain himself more? Yep. But do I continue to believe he's doing a horrible job? Nope. Do I keep up with every political issue? Nope, I've been planning a wedding lately and adjusting to a new boss at work so I've had other things to do that to do the research on issues that I did last year. However, I do know that I do not want gay marriage and I do not support abortions and I know that as a Democrat I did support gay marriage and I did support abortions as a woman's choice. I would actually call myself an independent if I ever thought I would vote Democrat, but I don't think the party will ever bend to my issues.

Re: If you're curious

[basildestiny]

Thank you, Joanna. I am still at work and thus still have not read what he said.

Re: If you're curious

[basildestiny]

Could I tell work I need to leave early so I can read what Karl Rove said? lol I'm sure they would say ok! :)

Re: I am curious about one thing

[hobbit-ninja.livejournal.com]

*unfriended*

[spaghetti-os.livejournal.com]

Bas...:)

I think your feelings are very similar to mine. I feel...So fresh and so clean! ;)

[basildestiny]

LOL It's weird agreeing politically? What the? ;)

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

See, that's why I have a new filter. I have said things that shouldn't be viewed by people when I'm having an off day. I said I was in no way perfect. And that I shouldn't think myself any better than anyone. And yes, you may be right that I said exactly what you said in an earlier entry. But I am willing to let people learn from their mistakes so I think it's fair that I can learn from my mistakes and better my opinions. Another reason that I have a new filter is that I have too many liberal friends who any time I say that I object to things I believed as a Democrat they jump on me and say that I'm a hypocrite. Except they say that I am a hypocrite not because we've had a one on one conversations and discussed the topic and my current feelings on the matter. They say it because of what this party says or what that party says. Or what this media person says or what that media person says. I also said in my comment that I actually would consider myself an indepedent except that I don't ever see Democrats lining up with my values and morals. I don't think that anyone else represents me except myself.

Abortion. I'm not lying. I have changed my opinion since we had that face to face discussion. It's not the mother's choice because it's not her body that she's going to destroy. Matt and I wouldn't have a problem adopting. I don't see what your point is other than you believe that everyone who is not in your party hates children and wouldn't adopt them. That Republicans just believe in not killing babies, but don't care about them after they are born. I disagree with that, but could definitely agree that some or even a majority don't care. I can't speak for them since those people and myself don't share viewpoints. I believe I also said It's not that I would want to have a child after being raped or that I want to die in childbirth, but rather that even these circumstances do not make murder ok. As a side, I think this society finds it more appalling to think that kittens or puppies might be aborted than a human baby. There's something backward about that. I said that immediately after the part that you are quoting.

Gay marriage. I'm going to have to use the logic that you'll laugh at and I don't care. Laugh and mock me, I have to say what I believe no matter. I have to get over not saying what is right just so we can laugh and chum around. We don't even laugh and chum around anymore anyway. Gay marriage is wrong. That is what I believe. And yes I believe it because God said so. Why is gay marriage right? Is it just because that would be tolerant to allow gay marriage? I have nothing against anyone in particular. I love the person or I should love the people. Admittedly I fail sometimes at that, but no one is perfect.

All of this talk about my party this and my party that. I'm sorry that you dislike Republicans so much, Joe. But don't put everything you've ever hated off on me because I don't believe in the Democratic party anymore. What does your party believe in anyway? That we should tolerant everything and everyone? Is there anything that is wrong? I'm just curious. I know why I was a Democrat and it definitely was because it was a tolerant, "hippy" type party. But you know, I'm not in the Republican party, I'm in God's party and God's party is love. I'm sorry that I failed at that. I'm really sorry that I'm not perfect because then Jesus wouldn't have had to die for me. I don't know which person you are talking about from work. Was it a journal entry or was it something we discussed in person? I can't remember, but I'd like to so that I can be more aware when I am around that person. I'm a work in progress and I will have my moments, but who doesn't have those moments? I am a sinner just like everyone else. So I think it's a little unfair to call me a hypocrite. But you can do as you like.

to be continued since too long to post entire comment...

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

Lastly, journals aren't meant to be selective? My original journals were kept for myself only. I began posting mine online to share who I am. To get over my shyness. Other people keep journals for many other reasons. But this journal too often is me venting and that's the worst side of me. I don't want that to be the only side of me that people see. Maybe if people didn't read this to keep in touch with me, but they do. Maybe if I hadn't met people strictly through LJ and it's the only way they knew me. If I could actually talk to my friends so they could see what I really feel when I'm being rational and not what I feel when I'm frustrated at work, then I wouldn't worry. But when I say I'm a Christian and people know I believe in God and then all they see in my journal is my venting, that's not how I should be.

I'm glad you said your peace. I think you've known for a while just like I've known that our friendship will never be the same. I think that's something that began a while ago. I will love you as a person, but I know that our values are in different places. And I know that is your choice just as this change is my choice. I'm sorry that our friendship couldn't supercede.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

Well I really am not politically aware. The point of this post had anything to do with aligning myself with any political party. I could care less about Karl Rove or John Kerry sometimes.

I have changed and I'm sorry that I didn't feel I knew myself well enough to tell you how much I've changed. I am a Christian, I have always been a Christian, I just decided that I didn't care about that for 8 years. I know that doesn't mean anything to you, but that's why our friendship was last 5 months ago.

I really don't understand why you keep saying I hate people or that I'm going to start hating people. Name a person that I hate and I'll confess it and work on NOT hating that person. But don't assume that because someone who claims to be a Christian says they hate and so and sos that I do the same thing. Are there so many kids out there? When I was a Democrat I never did the research for how many kids were really out there. I just bought into what everyone else was saying. I don't think I've told anyone they were going to burn forever in the pits of hell, but thank you again, Joe for telling me what I believe because obviously you'll know so much better than I what I believe.

God does care one way or another. I know why he does. But it's a moot point to non-Christians and I know that and you know that. This was never intended to be a comment in which I tell everyone else to have the same opinion as my own. Someone asked me what I believed so I answered. I simply wanted to suggest that if John Kerry wanted to convince me it was a good idea to fire Karl Rove that he should do a better job of informing me. A link to Rove's speech would have sufficed or having the entire thing in the email would have been nice. I don't think I said my opinion was the same as when I was a Democrat. If I said that, then I mistyped because I don't believe in abortion.

I don't know Warren's email address, but send it along and I'll write to him expressing my regret that his mother died. I don't see how that is my fault. Or that simply because two things exists, I must think one is right and one is wrong. I can think they are both wrong. It doesn't mean I condemn people. I have no right to do that. Neither do you, but that's another matter.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[mlwhite617.livejournal.com]

Comments from your first response:


Joe,

This is Matt, Janina’s fiancé. First of all I wanted to say hello that is if you still remember me.

I want to start out by commenting on your quote. "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson. Now first of all this isn’t the complete quote that Thomas Jefferson said. His complete quote was “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever.” The first question I have is what context is Thomas Jefferson saying this in? Well to give you a little American history lesson Thomas Jefferson was talking about how having slaves is wrong and that God will punish if the US if don’t change. BTW Thomas Jefferson is the most misquoted of all founding fathers. Isn’t it amazing how someone can totally turn someone else words into something totally opposite
Here is the link to all of his words: http://www.sheilaomalley.com/archives/000925.html

Now let’s respond to your other quotes you provided. “Liberalism is a disease”, “Liberals should be killed”, “Gays will burn in hell” all comments heard on my way home last night. And I believe this one is yours “God girl, hate is what your party does best.”

First of all I don’t know what radio stations you are listening to, but you are exaggerating( although I think I have heard Rush say Liberalism is a disease, he is so far to the right I don’t even listen to his nonsense, Christians do not believe this). On the radio there are several people who still do not follow Christian beliefs. Christians feel that the Republican Party is the only party that comes close to what God wants us to follow. I honestly don’t like the Republican Party; I really dislike the Democrat party. But as a whole the Republican Party is against abortion, and Gay marriage, along with some other views that fall within Gods commandments.

To say the Republican Party spreads hate is as much as an exaggeration as saying the Democrat party cares about other Americans. (I am talking about the politicians not the Americans that follow this party). After reading your comments they are very aggressive and also sounds like you hate what Janina believes in. I thought Liberals where open minded and didn’t make judgments about other people’s religion, I guess if its Christianity then it’s the exception, right? That’s what is seems like from the Democratic Party. But then again I could be wrong because the media on both sides is so unreliable.

As for Bush’s policy on Birth control, he tried to do away with the day after pill. Which basically is early abortion? That’s the only thing he has tried to do away with when it comes to Birth control. As for sex education he believes what other Christian believes sex education should be done by parents and isn’t the responsibility of the government. Plus handing out more condoms to middleschool students isn’t sex education. The best education is Abstinence and I believe Christianity teaches that. But then God is also being booted out of the government. Btw here is a link to what’s Bush’s sex education ideas are: http://womensissues.about.com/od/healthsexuality/i/isabstinenceonl_2.htm
So what would be your ideas to fix the two issues on birth control and sex education? Apparently Kerry has a hard time expressing what he would do. Except to add more money into the current programs that don’t work.

See next post for more

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[mlwhite617.livejournal.com]

Gay marriage is an oxymoron. Let’s start with the obvious signs that God meant marriage to be between and man and a women. The first argument is the physical difference of a man and a woman. I am not going into detail as you are a grown man and should know that a women’s anatomy is there for a reason. Second reason is that God made Eve for Adam, not Adam and Steve. Third reason, God says;

Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. [NIV]

Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. [NIV]

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.

Romans 1:26-27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. [27] In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. [NIV]

1 Cor. 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [10] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [NIV]

See God even speaks of Lesbianism. The Living Bible is complete and is even up to date with today.

Virginity, God places great importance on this. And again you are misquoting what the Bible says. In the Bible if you lied to your husband about being a virgin and he found out that you were not then yes you could have your wife put to death. That was in the Old Testament. Back then the Israelites say the great miracles of God, but yet still disobeyed him. If you read the bible then you know that not all of the laws that you have read were given by God. The Old Testament is also the Jewish history book of their people. Your quote would be valid if we were Jewish, but we are Christians so you have to take in account the complete bible and what it says about sin and marriage. Once Jesus died for our sins we now have the power to go to him ask for forgiveness and it is forgotten forever (if the person really meant to be forgiven). So if a non virgin marries a virgin it is still valid in the eyes of God if that person has asked for forgiveness. So to me Janina is a virgin through Christ. Plus no where in the bible does it say that you had to be a virgin to make a marriage valid.

And sir, from my point of view, I don’t appreciate you pointing out Janina’s past sins, especially since she has asked God for forgiveness on this one. In Gods eyes she is much cleaner then you unless you give up your pride and accept Gods truth. But hey it`s your eternal life you are gambling with.

Sorry for the above, she is going to be my wife and it is not very respectful to speak to her as you did.

The only person that is morally superior is God. We don’t think of ourselves as superior, but we do come much closer then a non-Christian. The whole point of a Christian is someone who tries to become like Christ. We will fail many times in life, that’s why God set it up that we can ask for forgiveness and start over. It’s all about trying as hard as you can to obey God for that pleases him.

See next post

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[mlwhite617.livejournal.com]

Your second post response:

You said that Janina is lying about her position on Abortion. If you read fully she told you that her opinion on abortion is not the same as it was when you new of her. I have read the above posts and she hasn’t changed her stance on anything since I have known her.

Janina and change. I am so happy she changed so many times. Why does she change? , she changes because she new deep down she wasn’t happy the way she was living her life. God kept on pushing her to be the women she is today. Janina is very smart, when something isn’t working, you try to find something that will work. I love her so much.

You said “what suits you and what morals you have hand picked.” –Joe
Her morals are based on the bible, she didn’t hand pick them, God did.

“again your saying that everything in the bible is fact and to be used as morals today? So you wont consider yourself truly married in the eyes of God because your not virgin like God says you should be?” – Joe
Well I answered that Quote, if you did your research then you would know of God’s forgiveness therefore you would have not said the above quote.

Adoption:

Wow where in the bible does it say, Adam and Eve now go adopt before having your own children. It doesn’t say that at all. If God wanted us to adopt I would, I love children they are a blessing from God. Adoption is very expensive in the day and again if God wanted us to he would supply what we needed to adopt. The bible says, very plainly, get married and go multiply. Question, when Abraham left his home, did God say, oh btw get all the orphans and treat them as your children, no he said I will make you father of many nations. If God wants us to adopt we will, but I haven’t got that from him yet. Although your idea is very noble.

I think its very funny that you think because Janina is a Christian that she is the “burn in hell type.” Joe you are exaggerating. Which is exactly what all politicians do.

Abortion:

We as Americans ( and I say we because our tax money pays for abortion) kill 1 million babies each year due to abortion. Since abortion has been legalized we have killed over 44 million total. Wow that’s allot of people that could be paying taxes for us right now. The choice starts before sex, not after.

Joe you must be listening to the most extreme spin I have ever heard. No true Christian would brag on bombing an abortion clinic, would Jesus brag? No he would not! As for the death penalty God gave us the right to put to death certain individuals that do unspeakable crimes. God recognized that humans are sinful and that some humans are more sinful then others. He knows that pride is the downfall of all man and that there are certain prideful individuals who will never change. No matter how much love you give them or education. God also wanted it to be made very clear that killing others was wrong and that if you killed someone you would be put to death. I don’t care what you say there has to be equal consequences for crimes where you take someone else life.

See next post

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[mlwhite617.livejournal.com]

Argument about Gays. Simple, God does’t want it that way, that is not what he intended. Gay marriage and people having casual sex is not what God wanted and with both you have STD’s, From a political standpoint if this nation fully supported Gay marriage what would stop someone in 20 or 30 years from now try to marry a small child or a goat? The argument the Gays are using is that two people that love each other should be able to get married. Well that same argument can be used for anything else. 30 years ago the government said that there would be no partial birth abortions its not right due to it being a life. Now present day its not a life unless its fully born so its ok to abort. People are extremist and go to far. Watch history.

Lesbianism, I answered from above, God does talk about it. You talk about doing research and looking up stuff. Well I can say the same for you.

Now let me educate you on Christians. There are three types of Christians in American today. There is your baby Christian, which basically means they become saved they want to follow Gods word, but fail because they don’t but the time and effort into following him. You have probably seen allot of baby Christians. The next one I call your extremist, they are made of people that want to bomb centers, and preach hell and damnation. The last type of Christian is what Jesus was. Mature! A mature Christian researches and tries to find Gods heart on issues daily. They love one another and try their best with Gods help to obey him. Unfortunately you don’t see many Christians like this. I know that its my goal to become a Mature Christian and I am trying hard. I also know that Janina is also working for this goal. That’s why I fell in love with her. She is very intelligent and open minded and wants to actively seek Gods heart. So my next question is why do you hate God and his people? Why are you so closed minded when it comes to Gods word? Do you believe in Satan, because he believes in you? Satan’s goal is to use the baby Christians and extremist Christians to keep others from going to heaven. Are you letting Satan win? If you want to know more I would be happy to share with you.

And one more thing, it’s a common misconception that hell is made up of fire and brimstone. It’s not for some reason Southern Baptists came up with this in order to scare people to Christ. Which is totally the wrong way to lead people to God? The way to lead people is to love like Jesus did. Hell is as the Bible refers to being without God. An eternity living with sin and its consequences. Guilt and all those negative emotions experienced over and over again. People who are not saved are not sent there by God, they chose to go there themselves.

Also I would appreciate it if you would give Janina more respect. She deserves a whole lot more than you are giving her. I have heard about you and she and I know exactly what has happened between you…. She has been a good friend to you; at the very least you could respect her beliefs and try to encourage her for trying to better herself. Instead you have done exactly what she is posting about. Dividing because she is a Christian.

Now I am sorry if I seem protective of Janina, she is going to be my wife and I love her very much. I want the best for her, as I would like to discuss this Christian hatred you have, that is if you can have an open mind?

Thanks,

Matthew White

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

I'm pretty sure that I gave my opinion on the matter. But I do agree with what Matt had to say. He is my other half and soulmate.