DIviders, not Uniters
Friday, June 24th, 2005 01:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
basildestinyYou all may recall last year about this time, I was gearing up for the 2004 election. I signed up on the John Kerry website and worked really hard to promote the man that I felt was best suited for the job. I have since changed my mind and gone from a staunch Democrat to not being one. It was brought to my attention that I wasn't voting with my morals and ethics. And when I looked at my reasons for wanting to be a Democrat, it wasn't because I felt that side was right. It was because I didn't like what the other side was doing. I had taken a "them vs us" attitude and was determined to bring about some change. So I re-evaluated what was important to me. When I did that, I realized that I sided with the President. I didn't think he was a saint, but I felt he was closer to what I believed than John Kerry. At the very least, he did what he said. I could count on him to say something and do it.
That being said, I got an email this morning from John Kerry. I'm still signed up through his website. I've heard that someone even called from his campaign thanking me for my support. I wasn't at home to receive this phone call. But back to my point, the email today was entitled "Dividers, not Uniters" and spoke about how this White House was dividing the nation. Today's division was being lead by Karl Rove who classified conservatives and liberals as such: Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. This statement does not seem unfair or untrue to me today. I can understand what Karl Rove meant and true, he didn't use maybe the best phrasing. In honesty, as John Kerry says, we all united together after the attacks and were all Americans. However, 4 years later, this is what we have, exactly what Karl Rove said. And he said it nicely. He could have used harsher language to describe liberals if his goal was to divide the nation. Perhaps it was his goal, but John Kerry didn't quote the entire speech. Just quoted that part in particular to illustrate his point and I do not believe his point is illustrated.
But John Kerry takes it a step further. And says that our reaction to this should be a letter to the President requesting (if you really think that John Kerry would be satisfied with a no because it was only a request) that the President renounce Rove's claims. Then he took a step further by giving a speech in front of the Senate calling for Karl Rove's resignation. But that wasn't really what he said. He actually called for President Bush to fire Rove. Let me just ask the question that is the big pink elephant in the room for me. How is firing Rove going to unite the country? How is demanding the President renounce Rove's claims going to unite the country? Does John Kerry have any plans or ideas in mind that would unite the country?
The reasonable thing to do would be to say that Karl Rove may have used incorrect phrasing. Of course, he didn't mean ALL liberals and ALL conservatives see things this way. And it certainly wasn't anyone's initial reaction. But if you really don't think the nation is not divided something even vaguely along those lines, I challenge you to turn on the news or pick up a paper or go to a news website and see if you still feel that way.
The President certainly isn't a saint, but does he divide anymore than John Kerry?
~Bas
PS Was that any less of a collosal waste of time than Congressman Kurt Weldon's speech in front of Congress two days ago? Here is an excerpt. He was upset that he was banned from the Factor for life because he didn't call and let anyone know he wasn't going to make it and in fact the Factor had received an email saying he was 15 minutes away. It turns out that his staff had made a mistake. But instead leaving it at that, the people paid for this to be put on the Record.
Talk about spin, Mr. Speaker. So today, I sent a memo to Mr. O'Reilly explaining the facts. Now I would remind Mr. O'Reilly that the Secretary of Energy, an important meeting on nuclear issues in the former Soviet states, takes my top priority.
So Mr. Speaker, for the record, because I had some contacts from constituents or other members, I would put the summary of my statement to Mr. O'Reilly and the notes of my staff about their contact with Mr. O'Reilly's show in to the Congressional Record.
Such an over reaction.
That being said, I got an email this morning from John Kerry. I'm still signed up through his website. I've heard that someone even called from his campaign thanking me for my support. I wasn't at home to receive this phone call. But back to my point, the email today was entitled "Dividers, not Uniters" and spoke about how this White House was dividing the nation. Today's division was being lead by Karl Rove who classified conservatives and liberals as such: Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. This statement does not seem unfair or untrue to me today. I can understand what Karl Rove meant and true, he didn't use maybe the best phrasing. In honesty, as John Kerry says, we all united together after the attacks and were all Americans. However, 4 years later, this is what we have, exactly what Karl Rove said. And he said it nicely. He could have used harsher language to describe liberals if his goal was to divide the nation. Perhaps it was his goal, but John Kerry didn't quote the entire speech. Just quoted that part in particular to illustrate his point and I do not believe his point is illustrated.
But John Kerry takes it a step further. And says that our reaction to this should be a letter to the President requesting (if you really think that John Kerry would be satisfied with a no because it was only a request) that the President renounce Rove's claims. Then he took a step further by giving a speech in front of the Senate calling for Karl Rove's resignation. But that wasn't really what he said. He actually called for President Bush to fire Rove. Let me just ask the question that is the big pink elephant in the room for me. How is firing Rove going to unite the country? How is demanding the President renounce Rove's claims going to unite the country? Does John Kerry have any plans or ideas in mind that would unite the country?
The reasonable thing to do would be to say that Karl Rove may have used incorrect phrasing. Of course, he didn't mean ALL liberals and ALL conservatives see things this way. And it certainly wasn't anyone's initial reaction. But if you really don't think the nation is not divided something even vaguely along those lines, I challenge you to turn on the news or pick up a paper or go to a news website and see if you still feel that way.
The President certainly isn't a saint, but does he divide anymore than John Kerry?
~Bas
PS Was that any less of a collosal waste of time than Congressman Kurt Weldon's speech in front of Congress two days ago? Here is an excerpt. He was upset that he was banned from the Factor for life because he didn't call and let anyone know he wasn't going to make it and in fact the Factor had received an email saying he was 15 minutes away. It turns out that his staff had made a mistake. But instead leaving it at that, the people paid for this to be put on the Record.
Talk about spin, Mr. Speaker. So today, I sent a memo to Mr. O'Reilly explaining the facts. Now I would remind Mr. O'Reilly that the Secretary of Energy, an important meeting on nuclear issues in the former Soviet states, takes my top priority.
So Mr. Speaker, for the record, because I had some contacts from constituents or other members, I would put the summary of my statement to Mr. O'Reilly and the notes of my staff about their contact with Mr. O'Reilly's show in to the Congressional Record.
Such an over reaction.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-26 03:16 pm (UTC)I have changed and I'm sorry that I didn't feel I knew myself well enough to tell you how much I've changed. I am a Christian, I have always been a Christian, I just decided that I didn't care about that for 8 years. I know that doesn't mean anything to you, but that's why our friendship was last 5 months ago.
I really don't understand why you keep saying I hate people or that I'm going to start hating people. Name a person that I hate and I'll confess it and work on NOT hating that person. But don't assume that because someone who claims to be a Christian says they hate and so and sos that I do the same thing. Are there so many kids out there? When I was a Democrat I never did the research for how many kids were really out there. I just bought into what everyone else was saying. I don't think I've told anyone they were going to burn forever in the pits of hell, but thank you again, Joe for telling me what I believe because obviously you'll know so much better than I what I believe.
God does care one way or another. I know why he does. But it's a moot point to non-Christians and I know that and you know that. This was never intended to be a comment in which I tell everyone else to have the same opinion as my own. Someone asked me what I believed so I answered. I simply wanted to suggest that if John Kerry wanted to convince me it was a good idea to fire Karl Rove that he should do a better job of informing me. A link to Rove's speech would have sufficed or having the entire thing in the email would have been nice. I don't think I said my opinion was the same as when I was a Democrat. If I said that, then I mistyped because I don't believe in abortion.
I don't know Warren's email address, but send it along and I'll write to him expressing my regret that his mother died. I don't see how that is my fault. Or that simply because two things exists, I must think one is right and one is wrong. I can think they are both wrong. It doesn't mean I condemn people. I have no right to do that. Neither do you, but that's another matter.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-26 10:11 pm (UTC)Joe,
This is Matt, Janina’s fiancé. First of all I wanted to say hello that is if you still remember me.
I want to start out by commenting on your quote. "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson. Now first of all this isn’t the complete quote that Thomas Jefferson said. His complete quote was “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever.” The first question I have is what context is Thomas Jefferson saying this in? Well to give you a little American history lesson Thomas Jefferson was talking about how having slaves is wrong and that God will punish if the US if don’t change. BTW Thomas Jefferson is the most misquoted of all founding fathers. Isn’t it amazing how someone can totally turn someone else words into something totally opposite
Here is the link to all of his words: http://www.sheilaomalley.com/archives/000925.html
Now let’s respond to your other quotes you provided. “Liberalism is a disease”, “Liberals should be killed”, “Gays will burn in hell” all comments heard on my way home last night. And I believe this one is yours “God girl, hate is what your party does best.”
First of all I don’t know what radio stations you are listening to, but you are exaggerating( although I think I have heard Rush say Liberalism is a disease, he is so far to the right I don’t even listen to his nonsense, Christians do not believe this). On the radio there are several people who still do not follow Christian beliefs. Christians feel that the Republican Party is the only party that comes close to what God wants us to follow. I honestly don’t like the Republican Party; I really dislike the Democrat party. But as a whole the Republican Party is against abortion, and Gay marriage, along with some other views that fall within Gods commandments.
To say the Republican Party spreads hate is as much as an exaggeration as saying the Democrat party cares about other Americans. (I am talking about the politicians not the Americans that follow this party). After reading your comments they are very aggressive and also sounds like you hate what Janina believes in. I thought Liberals where open minded and didn’t make judgments about other people’s religion, I guess if its Christianity then it’s the exception, right? That’s what is seems like from the Democratic Party. But then again I could be wrong because the media on both sides is so unreliable.
As for Bush’s policy on Birth control, he tried to do away with the day after pill. Which basically is early abortion? That’s the only thing he has tried to do away with when it comes to Birth control. As for sex education he believes what other Christian believes sex education should be done by parents and isn’t the responsibility of the government. Plus handing out more condoms to middleschool students isn’t sex education. The best education is Abstinence and I believe Christianity teaches that. But then God is also being booted out of the government. Btw here is a link to what’s Bush’s sex education ideas are: http://womensissues.about.com/od/healthsexuality/i/isabstinenceonl_2.htm
So what would be your ideas to fix the two issues on birth control and sex education? Apparently Kerry has a hard time expressing what he would do. Except to add more money into the current programs that don’t work.
See next post for more
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-26 10:13 pm (UTC)Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. [NIV]
Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. [NIV]
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.
Romans 1:26-27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. [27] In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. [NIV]
1 Cor. 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [10] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [NIV]
See God even speaks of Lesbianism. The Living Bible is complete and is even up to date with today.
Virginity, God places great importance on this. And again you are misquoting what the Bible says. In the Bible if you lied to your husband about being a virgin and he found out that you were not then yes you could have your wife put to death. That was in the Old Testament. Back then the Israelites say the great miracles of God, but yet still disobeyed him. If you read the bible then you know that not all of the laws that you have read were given by God. The Old Testament is also the Jewish history book of their people. Your quote would be valid if we were Jewish, but we are Christians so you have to take in account the complete bible and what it says about sin and marriage. Once Jesus died for our sins we now have the power to go to him ask for forgiveness and it is forgotten forever (if the person really meant to be forgiven). So if a non virgin marries a virgin it is still valid in the eyes of God if that person has asked for forgiveness. So to me Janina is a virgin through Christ. Plus no where in the bible does it say that you had to be a virgin to make a marriage valid.
And sir, from my point of view, I don’t appreciate you pointing out Janina’s past sins, especially since she has asked God for forgiveness on this one. In Gods eyes she is much cleaner then you unless you give up your pride and accept Gods truth. But hey it`s your eternal life you are gambling with.
Sorry for the above, she is going to be my wife and it is not very respectful to speak to her as you did.
The only person that is morally superior is God. We don’t think of ourselves as superior, but we do come much closer then a non-Christian. The whole point of a Christian is someone who tries to become like Christ. We will fail many times in life, that’s why God set it up that we can ask for forgiveness and start over. It’s all about trying as hard as you can to obey God for that pleases him.
See next post
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-26 10:14 pm (UTC)You said that Janina is lying about her position on Abortion. If you read fully she told you that her opinion on abortion is not the same as it was when you new of her. I have read the above posts and she hasn’t changed her stance on anything since I have known her.
Janina and change. I am so happy she changed so many times. Why does she change? , she changes because she new deep down she wasn’t happy the way she was living her life. God kept on pushing her to be the women she is today. Janina is very smart, when something isn’t working, you try to find something that will work. I love her so much.
You said “what suits you and what morals you have hand picked.” –Joe
Her morals are based on the bible, she didn’t hand pick them, God did.
“again your saying that everything in the bible is fact and to be used as morals today? So you wont consider yourself truly married in the eyes of God because your not virgin like God says you should be?” – Joe
Well I answered that Quote, if you did your research then you would know of God’s forgiveness therefore you would have not said the above quote.
Adoption:
Wow where in the bible does it say, Adam and Eve now go adopt before having your own children. It doesn’t say that at all. If God wanted us to adopt I would, I love children they are a blessing from God. Adoption is very expensive in the day and again if God wanted us to he would supply what we needed to adopt. The bible says, very plainly, get married and go multiply. Question, when Abraham left his home, did God say, oh btw get all the orphans and treat them as your children, no he said I will make you father of many nations. If God wants us to adopt we will, but I haven’t got that from him yet. Although your idea is very noble.
I think its very funny that you think because Janina is a Christian that she is the “burn in hell type.” Joe you are exaggerating. Which is exactly what all politicians do.
Abortion:
We as Americans ( and I say we because our tax money pays for abortion) kill 1 million babies each year due to abortion. Since abortion has been legalized we have killed over 44 million total. Wow that’s allot of people that could be paying taxes for us right now. The choice starts before sex, not after.
Joe you must be listening to the most extreme spin I have ever heard. No true Christian would brag on bombing an abortion clinic, would Jesus brag? No he would not! As for the death penalty God gave us the right to put to death certain individuals that do unspeakable crimes. God recognized that humans are sinful and that some humans are more sinful then others. He knows that pride is the downfall of all man and that there are certain prideful individuals who will never change. No matter how much love you give them or education. God also wanted it to be made very clear that killing others was wrong and that if you killed someone you would be put to death. I don’t care what you say there has to be equal consequences for crimes where you take someone else life.
See next post
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-26 10:15 pm (UTC)Lesbianism, I answered from above, God does talk about it. You talk about doing research and looking up stuff. Well I can say the same for you.
Now let me educate you on Christians. There are three types of Christians in American today. There is your baby Christian, which basically means they become saved they want to follow Gods word, but fail because they don’t but the time and effort into following him. You have probably seen allot of baby Christians. The next one I call your extremist, they are made of people that want to bomb centers, and preach hell and damnation. The last type of Christian is what Jesus was. Mature! A mature Christian researches and tries to find Gods heart on issues daily. They love one another and try their best with Gods help to obey him. Unfortunately you don’t see many Christians like this. I know that its my goal to become a Mature Christian and I am trying hard. I also know that Janina is also working for this goal. That’s why I fell in love with her. She is very intelligent and open minded and wants to actively seek Gods heart. So my next question is why do you hate God and his people? Why are you so closed minded when it comes to Gods word? Do you believe in Satan, because he believes in you? Satan’s goal is to use the baby Christians and extremist Christians to keep others from going to heaven. Are you letting Satan win? If you want to know more I would be happy to share with you.
And one more thing, it’s a common misconception that hell is made up of fire and brimstone. It’s not for some reason Southern Baptists came up with this in order to scare people to Christ. Which is totally the wrong way to lead people to God? The way to lead people is to love like Jesus did. Hell is as the Bible refers to being without God. An eternity living with sin and its consequences. Guilt and all those negative emotions experienced over and over again. People who are not saved are not sent there by God, they chose to go there themselves.
Also I would appreciate it if you would give Janina more respect. She deserves a whole lot more than you are giving her. I have heard about you and she and I know exactly what has happened between you…. She has been a good friend to you; at the very least you could respect her beliefs and try to encourage her for trying to better herself. Instead you have done exactly what she is posting about. Dividing because she is a Christian.
Now I am sorry if I seem protective of Janina, she is going to be my wife and I love her very much. I want the best for her, as I would like to discuss this Christian hatred you have, that is if you can have an open mind?
Thanks,
Matthew White
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-26 11:21 pm (UTC)Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 01:01 am (UTC)Btw you showed us both who you really are today. A lonely man that is self daluted, that really didn't care for a friend, so what did he really want? Which is another thing that is frightening, why is a 40 year old(guessing) married man hanging out with a single women that is 25 years old?
I bet you I can guess.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 01:22 am (UTC)So it's ok, babe. My honor wasn't attacked. I don't think he was calling me a dog.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 03:37 am (UTC)My, what a glowing Christian attitude you are displaying. Mr. Future Husband of Janina's. Since you seem so willing to cast stones here, I feel I must point out a few things. Why is a 40 (39) year old man doing hanging out with a 25 year old single woman? Oh, I don't know--what's a 25 year old woman doing hanging out with a 39 year old man? Was Janina forced to spend time with Joe? I hardly think so. It goes both ways and I feel I should warn you to be careful while flinging stones-those walls in your glass house are awfully fragile.
The prevailing attitude here seems to be that Joe wasn't and still isn't deserving of Janina's friendship. That he failed her somehow and that he didn't "care for a friend". I count Joe among my closest friends and I can guarantee you that HE'S not the one who failed in that particular friendship. Joe is one of the most caring and sincere people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. If my friendship with Joe is any indication at all of how he treats his other friends, including you, Janina, then I have no doubt that you were never treated with anything less than respect.
Using your own standards of friendship, Janina, I must only conclude that perhaps YOU were not and still are not worthy of Joe's friendship. Friends are not disposable. You can't trade them in for something 'better' when you feel you need a change. And above all, when you do treat friends that way, it's foolish to expect them to be there when you suddenly decide to talk to them again.
I'd say that one day you might regret treating Joe this way, but I think that's probably a lost cause. What I've read here today almost smacks of brainwashing. It's like Joe's talking to a brick wall. A brick wall that's been brainwashed by another, slightly moronic brick wall.
Sad, really.
--C
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 03:57 am (UTC)Matthew is just defensive. He needn't be and I believe I even said as much in my journal. Calling someone a dog could definitely be mistaken, but he still should keep his temper in check.
I don't think I have EVER tried to trade my friends in. EVER. E-V-E-R. I have tried really hard to keep in touch with them even after I "changed" or "found something I was missing." It's something I have found difficult to do because people simply don't believe me when I say that I care and that I love them. I went out with Joe a couple weeks back to try to fix whatever had happened to our friendship. I didn't want him to be left out. I didn't want him to miss my marriage. But there just was the gap. I know part of it was from December and I'm sure part of it was just that I have changed and don't agree with him on some things.
Thanks for being a good friend to Joe.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
From:Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-30 11:09 am (UTC)Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2005-06-30 05:20 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
From:Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 01:16 am (UTC)I'm sorry, I didn't answer your questions. I've been spending time with my family today and haven't had a chance to reply to each little thing. My bad. I didn't know you wanted me to do that. I'll work on that now since I know I won't have time tomorrow.
I'm glad you have a friend that won't let you live in the past too.
I wish I had thought of the answer that Matt gave. That the media shouldn't be trusted. That was a good one. I actually didn't have a response to the conservative media because while I like to be informed by the media, I don't base my values on the media: liberal, conservative, independent or otherwise.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 01:16 am (UTC)Gay marriage is wrong because marriage was intended in the Bible to be between a man and a woman. Men and women have different roles in the marriage. Men are good at some things and women good at other things. Two men together or two women together destroy the family as God intended the family to be.
As to be morally righteous, I have God's morals which are the best morals as Matt said. But I don't think that I am any better than anyone since I am a sinner just like everyone else.
Me and change. I'll keep changing so I can try to match the perfect example that Jesus set for me. I'll never attain that goal and so I will always change.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 01:17 am (UTC)Back to adoption/abortion, I don't understand how adopting is the good Christian thing. I think it's a good thing plain and simple. It's not a Christian or nonChristian thing. But I get your point that there are children out there who need homes. I think Matt said what I couldn't put my finger on. God hasn't called me to do that. I don't even know if Matt and I could qualify to adopt unless it was a family member's child who willing gave the child to us. I don't like to tell anyone they are going to burn forever in the pits of hell because that's simply not funny and not a statement that I throw around lightly.
Gay marriage again, I don't know if anything I have to say would be practical. I'm kind of uncertain what that word means to me right now. It's kind of like the word normal. Not really sure about that one either. They don't have to burn for their sins, I don't want them to burn for their sins, I'll try not to say that. I haven't said it to anyone when I was a much younger and more outspoken Christian and I have no intention of doing so now. Satan is the only one who wins when that statement is throw around lightly. I think Matt already covered why those other parts in the Bible are outdated. Jesus outdated them. We don't give sacrifices now either because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 01:17 am (UTC)The Republican party's stance on planned parenthood and me calling myself a Republican. Sorry there. I fell into my own trap of trying to react to every statement instead of what you asked which was my opinion on the matter. I'll try to watch it in future.
I said I was looking forward to resarching the issue because I was at work and had been at work all day. I was in queue all day and did not have time for much of anything else. I was in after call work typing responses as "stress relief" from the day. We are understaffed. I haven't been a Bush supporter that long. I believe he's stood up for his morals a few times, but he still is a lesser of two evils.
The Bible was written by men inspired by God. If God can create man from dust, he can make sure his message is written down correctly. Also there is a lot of things misunderstood about the history of the Bible. I thought for certain the King James version meant that it was written by King James. He actually had nothing to do with it. But you're right. Men did write the Bible. Men like Moses, Isiah, King David, Solomon, the apostle Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, John the Baptist. Then it was transcribed through tedious work and dedication. Many people died to get it translated into English. Shakespeare preferred the Geneva Bible to the King James version.
I have no idea what our friendship was based upon actually. I was too much of a coward to say so because I used to value people liking me. I wanted people to know that I was a nice person. It didn't matter if they knew what I stood for as long as they knew that I meant well. So I didn't say things because I didn't know what you'd think of me. I liked our talks. I didn't like how things would get out of control every few months. So that's what I really felt and I'm sorry I couldn't say that to you in person however many months ago. It was more important that I was a loyal friend who would be there through arguments instead of me being true to myself or more importantly true to God.
Sorry I seemingly hid behind Matt. He's had more free time today than I have and so he put together the response he wanted to give. I didn't actually want to write a response, but then I didn't know your intention was to see what I believed. Hope this last comment has helped.
I'll look back on these posts and realize that I need to stop worrying what counterarguments are going to be given. I'll remember that I need to just say what I mean and wait for follow up questions if needed.
God is infinite and doesn't need to take time out to provide money for my wedding. He's provided so much! Including money for the wedding and the air I breathe.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 12:21 am (UTC)If our country wasn't founded on Christian beliefs, then why are we removing them?
As her soon to be husband it is my duty to defend her honor. When you speak about her in a disrespectful way be ready for me to be her "Official Spokesperson."
And as you saw from her other posts, she forms her own opinons about things. Thats why I love her, intelligent. She thinks and prays instead of blindly following worldly views. A strong Christian Women.
Also she has chosen to "parrot" God, not me.
Althought I don't agree with your stances I still value your opinion, specialy when the are not self indulgent.
I really hate that you could not still be friends with Janina, she is a wonderful person and a blessing to be around. I am really concerned about you, you seem to be very intolerent of Christian Beliefs. I am sorry if someone called themself a Christian and did something bad towards you. I feel allot of Hate coming from you. For that I also am sorry you were mistreated. I really hope you change for the better.
Thanks,
Matt
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 04:39 am (UTC)Thomas Paine, what role did he play as a founding father?
http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/paine.html
After American independence had been won, Paine played no part in the establishment of the new republic. Instead, he busied himself trying to invent a smokeless candle and devising an iron bridge.
As for his book, Age of Reason. Its his explanation of worship and God. I would therefore point out that this gentlemen may had certian view points that initated people revolting the kings power in france, he did not have any role in establishing the United States, I would also point out that he isn't a founding father. Just another lost man trying to make his own rules.
And I do want to apologize for one thing I thought you were calling Janina a dog therefore I wasn't going to let that happen. She explained to me that its something she said about herself.
And one more thing, to be honest I don't trust your intentions that you had with Janina when you new her. I guess it could be that I am not sure of your moral basis on views like sex and the promise of marriage. I also apologize for calling you age 40, as I was guessing.
The reason its a problem is that she is going to look at you as a friend, but most men your age, that don't have any moral foundation are looking for more than just friendship. But then again I could be wrong. Although I already know the truth in this matter.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 07:53 pm (UTC)http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
The early founding fathers hated the Catholic Church. For good reason. I agree in our first amendment. To be Christian also meant to be Catholic before the US was made. Later on serveal of our founding fathers helped start and establish different types of christian churches thats where you have different denominations of Christians.
I really hope you will read that site above. Its really great because it shows you how much people change from baby Christians (founding fathers started out) to mature Christians (establishing the US).
I know years ago I could have been proubly been classified as a Deist. I was running from Jesus teachings. I know I would hate to be quoted and remebered for the stupid stuff I have said.
Oh and btw it really hurts me that you honestly believe Thomas Paine's quote "What is is the Bible teaches us?" - Honestly if he was so smart why would he say that. He knows that the bible is also a historcal document and that women were being raped, murdered before the bible was even written. Sounds to me like he really has a grudge.(btw he didn't help, to say because his book was published that he owned the idea is ridiculus and a stretch of the truth.)
In fact if it wasn't for the sins above.. why would we need a bible, we would still be in the Garden of Eden talking to God in person.
But hey thats why this country is still great, free speech. I may disagree with you, but we are both entitled.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 08:05 pm (UTC)So Thomas Jefferson was a christian but I have no idea of the denomination.
"doctrines of Jesus are simple and tend all to the happiness of man." -Thomas Jefferson
I agree with is statment, I don't remember calling Thomas Jefferson sad, I did say he is misquoted all the time.
I am taking all the info , Deist, Christian, everything. And per the Declaration of Independence, our laws, they were all based on Judea Christian belief.
Only problem is if you weren't Catholic, then you were Deist.. there wasn't a Baptist or Methodist ect.
Orthodox Christians are catholic, and they have tons of dos and don'ts that not really biblical in nature.
I am pretty sure that you are not going to read my comments with an open mind, we are pretty hard headed.
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
Date: 2005-06-27 08:15 pm (UTC)Thats what I am reading.. I hope that has your seal of approval, its the entire Jefferson Bible and its in its order. I would also ask you to read it also.
He may not have the exact Christian beliefs I have, but I think it would be a good book to read. If he truly is a Deist whats it going to hurt?
Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson
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