DIviders, not Uniters

[basildestiny]

You all may recall last year about this time, I was gearing up for the 2004 election. I signed up on the John Kerry website and worked really hard to promote the man that I felt was best suited for the job. I have since changed my mind and gone from a staunch Democrat to not being one. It was brought to my attention that I wasn't voting with my morals and ethics. And when I looked at my reasons for wanting to be a Democrat, it wasn't because I felt that side was right. It was because I didn't like what the other side was doing. I had taken a "them vs us" attitude and was determined to bring about some change. So I re-evaluated what was important to me. When I did that, I realized that I sided with the President. I didn't think he was a saint, but I felt he was closer to what I believed than John Kerry. At the very least, he did what he said. I could count on him to say something and do it.

That being said, I got an email this morning from John Kerry. I'm still signed up through his website. I've heard that someone even called from his campaign thanking me for my support. I wasn't at home to receive this phone call. But back to my point, the email today was entitled "Dividers, not Uniters" and spoke about how this White House was dividing the nation. Today's division was being lead by Karl Rove who classified conservatives and liberals as such: Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers. This statement does not seem unfair or untrue to me today. I can understand what Karl Rove meant and true, he didn't use maybe the best phrasing. In honesty, as John Kerry says, we all united together after the attacks and were all Americans. However, 4 years later, this is what we have, exactly what Karl Rove said. And he said it nicely. He could have used harsher language to describe liberals if his goal was to divide the nation. Perhaps it was his goal, but John Kerry didn't quote the entire speech. Just quoted that part in particular to illustrate his point and I do not believe his point is illustrated.

But John Kerry takes it a step further. And says that our reaction to this should be a letter to the President requesting (if you really think that John Kerry would be satisfied with a no because it was only a request) that the President renounce Rove's claims. Then he took a step further by giving a speech in front of the Senate calling for Karl Rove's resignation. But that wasn't really what he said. He actually called for President Bush to fire Rove. Let me just ask the question that is the big pink elephant in the room for me. How is firing Rove going to unite the country? How is demanding the President renounce Rove's claims going to unite the country? Does John Kerry have any plans or ideas in mind that would unite the country?

The reasonable thing to do would be to say that Karl Rove may have used incorrect phrasing. Of course, he didn't mean ALL liberals and ALL conservatives see things this way. And it certainly wasn't anyone's initial reaction. But if you really don't think the nation is not divided something even vaguely along those lines, I challenge you to turn on the news or pick up a paper or go to a news website and see if you still feel that way.

The President certainly isn't a saint, but does he divide anymore than John Kerry?
~Bas

PS Was that any less of a collosal waste of time than Congressman Kurt Weldon's speech in front of Congress two days ago? Here is an excerpt. He was upset that he was banned from the Factor for life because he didn't call and let anyone know he wasn't going to make it and in fact the Factor had received an email saying he was 15 minutes away. It turns out that his staff had made a mistake. But instead leaving it at that, the people paid for this to be put on the Record.

Talk about spin, Mr. Speaker. So today, I sent a memo to Mr. O'Reilly explaining the facts. Now I would remind Mr. O'Reilly that the Secretary of Energy, an important meeting on nuclear issues in the former Soviet states, takes my top priority.

So Mr. Speaker, for the record, because I had some contacts from constituents or other members, I would put the summary of my statement to Mr. O'Reilly and the notes of my staff about their contact with Mr. O'Reilly's show in to the Congressional Record.

Such an over reaction.

Comments

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[mlwhite617.livejournal.com]

After the dog comment I think I would prefer your address, so that I can really be face to face with you. :)

Btw you showed us both who you really are today. A lonely man that is self daluted, that really didn't care for a friend, so what did he really want? Which is another thing that is frightening, why is a 40 year old(guessing) married man hanging out with a single women that is 25 years old?

I bet you I can guess.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

I think Joe was referring to a comment that I had made about how I considered myself loyal like a dog in my friendships. I hope I got something close to what I said. I don't remember exactly what I said, but I think that was the essence. I think I've been pretty loyal, but I'll let God decide. He's the fairest judge.

So it's ok, babe. My honor wasn't attacked. I don't think he was calling me a dog.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, you know what? Enough's enough. I'm a friend of Joe's and I've read this whole debacle from beginning to end and while, like my grandfather used to say--"I don't have a dog in this fight", I just can't stand idly by and watch one of my closest and dearest friends be insulted and not respond to it.

My, what a glowing Christian attitude you are displaying. Mr. Future Husband of Janina's. Since you seem so willing to cast stones here, I feel I must point out a few things. Why is a 40 (39) year old man doing hanging out with a 25 year old single woman? Oh, I don't know--what's a 25 year old woman doing hanging out with a 39 year old man? Was Janina forced to spend time with Joe? I hardly think so. It goes both ways and I feel I should warn you to be careful while flinging stones-those walls in your glass house are awfully fragile.

The prevailing attitude here seems to be that Joe wasn't and still isn't deserving of Janina's friendship. That he failed her somehow and that he didn't "care for a friend". I count Joe among my closest friends and I can guarantee you that HE'S not the one who failed in that particular friendship. Joe is one of the most caring and sincere people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. If my friendship with Joe is any indication at all of how he treats his other friends, including you, Janina, then I have no doubt that you were never treated with anything less than respect.

Using your own standards of friendship, Janina, I must only conclude that perhaps YOU were not and still are not worthy of Joe's friendship. Friends are not disposable. You can't trade them in for something 'better' when you feel you need a change. And above all, when you do treat friends that way, it's foolish to expect them to be there when you suddenly decide to talk to them again.

I'd say that one day you might regret treating Joe this way, but I think that's probably a lost cause. What I've read here today almost smacks of brainwashing. It's like Joe's talking to a brick wall. A brick wall that's been brainwashed by another, slightly moronic brick wall.

Sad, really.

--C

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

Well you really don't have a dog in this race. Regardless of how Matt felt about the situation, I haven't defamed Joe's friendship. I never said that he wasn't a worthy friend. I've tried my best to answer his questions when I realized they were questions meant to be answered and not rhetorical questions. I didn't dispose of Joe. I didn't know how to tell him that he made me uncomfortable one night back in December. I'm pretty sure that he understood that later. I tried to get past it since I thought it was silly to lose a friendship over that, but I don't think I ever really could. There are a million different ways that things could have gone differently that night so I'm not going to speculate on whose fault it is. Joe himself says that things changed long ago and not as a result of this discussion.

Matthew is just defensive. He needn't be and I believe I even said as much in my journal. Calling someone a dog could definitely be mistaken, but he still should keep his temper in check.

I don't think I have EVER tried to trade my friends in. EVER. E-V-E-R. I have tried really hard to keep in touch with them even after I "changed" or "found something I was missing." It's something I have found difficult to do because people simply don't believe me when I say that I care and that I love them. I went out with Joe a couple weeks back to try to fix whatever had happened to our friendship. I didn't want him to be left out. I didn't want him to miss my marriage. But there just was the gap. I know part of it was from December and I'm sure part of it was just that I have changed and don't agree with him on some things.

Thanks for being a good friend to Joe.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

I'm not worried about your friend. She's your friend and she can certainly make up her mind however she wants. I'll just debate it based on how I felt and what I didn't say.

I would apologize for not sharing, but the whole point was that I felt uncomfortable. And I have apologized, but it was too little too late anyway.

Nitpicking apart our friendship has probably been the lowest point of the friendship. I am sorry that it came to this. I am sorry that we could always communicate well about everything else except our friendship. I can't change it now. There's nothing that I can do now that will correct it. If I could send out a BST overnight to install it, I would.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[tamadar.livejournal.com]

I tremble for stupid people.... cause they are "ig nunt" . You are too scared to sign in with your account and want to spout some horse gibber that this guy is the greatest thing since air conditioning? Have you seen his picture he posts with? That mofugger is one hateful s.o.b with evil in his heart. To the OP of this thread.... You need to lay off the self righteous defender of the free mind. You hate our shit that much.... take your sorry ass and go. USA will be better off with with your anarchist views and petty behaviors.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[(Anonymous)]

Umm, I posted anonymously because I don't HAVE a LJ account. And yes, of course I've seen the photo Joe has up. Take a closer look--it's Johnny Cash: http://www.penmachine.com/musicpages/greatestphoto.html

It was reprinted a couple of years ago in Billboard magazine in an ad reflecting Cash's opinion on the current state of country music and the music business in general: http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/Audio/cash-ad.php The ad's message, placed directly above Cash's middle finger: "American Recordings and Johnny Cash would like to acknowledge the Nashville music establishment and country radio for your support."

It's a very famous image. Look at that, you learned something new today and I bet it didn't hurt a bit! :)

And as far as me defending Joe-of course I did simply because he's my friend. I imagine he'd do the same for me if the situation were reversed. It's just what friends do.

--Joe's anonymous friend who doesn't have a LJ

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[tamadar.livejournal.com]

So, because a picture is famous lets us know what exactly?

That Joe is flipping of country music? The recording industry? The self righteous?

Yeah... makes it better because its a picture from billboard magazine.

Who cares, its Joe's view on how he wants to be portrayed. Read his Journal he is flipping off everyone there with his rantings.

Great guy?... yeah right.

NEXT.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

LOL Sometimes you speak in weird quotes to things I think I remember saying a long, long time ago. But I guess my memory isn't as good as I thought it was. I'm sure the dog part was something I said.

I'm sorry, I didn't answer your questions. I've been spending time with my family today and haven't had a chance to reply to each little thing. My bad. I didn't know you wanted me to do that. I'll work on that now since I know I won't have time tomorrow.

I'm glad you have a friend that won't let you live in the past too.

I wish I had thought of the answer that Matt gave. That the media shouldn't be trusted. That was a good one. I actually didn't have a response to the conservative media because while I like to be informed by the media, I don't base my values on the media: liberal, conservative, independent or otherwise.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

On Abortion, Matt better knows what Bush has done birth control and sexual education wise. But I do think it is the parent's job to educate their children. Adoption is a great thing! But I don't see how Matt and I adopting a child will show that I stand behind abortion being murder. Abortion is murder. I think if women didn't have the opportunity to murder an unwanted child, this society would see rape as far worse. But then again, maybe not.

Gay marriage is wrong because marriage was intended in the Bible to be between a man and a woman. Men and women have different roles in the marriage. Men are good at some things and women good at other things. Two men together or two women together destroy the family as God intended the family to be.

As to be morally righteous, I have God's morals which are the best morals as Matt said. But I don't think that I am any better than anyone since I am a sinner just like everyone else.

Me and change. I'll keep changing so I can try to match the perfect example that Jesus set for me. I'll never attain that goal and so I will always change.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

I say the Bible is 100% true and fact and the word of God unaltered. I consider myself already truly married in the eyes of God. I just lack the ceremony. And I think it is wrong to take the Bible out of context. It's silly to take one verse and say it says something. Just like it would be silly to take one line from anything and interpret it.

Back to adoption/abortion, I don't understand how adopting is the good Christian thing. I think it's a good thing plain and simple. It's not a Christian or nonChristian thing. But I get your point that there are children out there who need homes. I think Matt said what I couldn't put my finger on. God hasn't called me to do that. I don't even know if Matt and I could qualify to adopt unless it was a family member's child who willing gave the child to us. I don't like to tell anyone they are going to burn forever in the pits of hell because that's simply not funny and not a statement that I throw around lightly.

Gay marriage again, I don't know if anything I have to say would be practical. I'm kind of uncertain what that word means to me right now. It's kind of like the word normal. Not really sure about that one either. They don't have to burn for their sins, I don't want them to burn for their sins, I'll try not to say that. I haven't said it to anyone when I was a much younger and more outspoken Christian and I have no intention of doing so now. Satan is the only one who wins when that statement is throw around lightly. I think Matt already covered why those other parts in the Bible are outdated. Jesus outdated them. We don't give sacrifices now either because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice.

Re: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson

[basildestiny]

I had no idea that homosexuality was different from lesbianism. I thought homosexuality meant the same sex and heterosexuality meant different sex.

The Republican party's stance on planned parenthood and me calling myself a Republican. Sorry there. I fell into my own trap of trying to react to every statement instead of what you asked which was my opinion on the matter. I'll try to watch it in future.

I said I was looking forward to resarching the issue because I was at work and had been at work all day. I was in queue all day and did not have time for much of anything else. I was in after call work typing responses as "stress relief" from the day. We are understaffed. I haven't been a Bush supporter that long. I believe he's stood up for his morals a few times, but he still is a lesser of two evils.

The Bible was written by men inspired by God. If God can create man from dust, he can make sure his message is written down correctly. Also there is a lot of things misunderstood about the history of the Bible. I thought for certain the King James version meant that it was written by King James. He actually had nothing to do with it. But you're right. Men did write the Bible. Men like Moses, Isiah, King David, Solomon, the apostle Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, John the Baptist. Then it was transcribed through tedious work and dedication. Many people died to get it translated into English. Shakespeare preferred the Geneva Bible to the King James version.

I have no idea what our friendship was based upon actually. I was too much of a coward to say so because I used to value people liking me. I wanted people to know that I was a nice person. It didn't matter if they knew what I stood for as long as they knew that I meant well. So I didn't say things because I didn't know what you'd think of me. I liked our talks. I didn't like how things would get out of control every few months. So that's what I really felt and I'm sorry I couldn't say that to you in person however many months ago. It was more important that I was a loyal friend who would be there through arguments instead of me being true to myself or more importantly true to God.

Sorry I seemingly hid behind Matt. He's had more free time today than I have and so he put together the response he wanted to give. I didn't actually want to write a response, but then I didn't know your intention was to see what I believed. Hope this last comment has helped.

I'll look back on these posts and realize that I need to stop worrying what counterarguments are going to be given. I'll remember that I need to just say what I mean and wait for follow up questions if needed.

God is infinite and doesn't need to take time out to provide money for my wedding. He's provided so much! Including money for the wedding and the air I breathe.